Submission Subscribe   
  From:  karen (karen10051)   12/19/2001 7:05 am  
To:  ALL   (1 of 44)  
 
  290.1  
 
Hello, 
As a Christian woman, i struggle with submission, and would like to have your views. 

On another forum, there was a rather heated debate about this, and whether a woman is obligated by God to follow her husband into sin in order to be submissive. 

One camp felt that she was accountable to God first, and that if her husband commanded her to do something sinful (such as cheat on income tax or murder someone) she was perfectly right and sane to say no. 

The other camp felt that her only obligation under God was to submit to her husband and that she should do so no matter what...and that while she may be held legally accountable, she would not be held morally accountable. 

My personal opinion is that God gave me a brain for a reason.... 

karen

  
  
   Options  Reply Delete Edit   
Rate 
  
    
 


  From:  Alex_Anatole (AlexAnatole)   12/19/2001 7:09 am  
To:  karen (karen10051)   (2 of 44)  
 
  290.2 in reply to 290.1  
 
Karen, 
<<...God gave me a brain for a reason....>> 

Yes!, The same reason He gave you a conscience! So that you could love Him and avoid sin. 

Our first responsibility is to God. 

Alex

www.stseraphim.org 
www.delphi.com/orthodoxway 
  
   Options  Reply Delete Edit   
Rate 
  
    
 


  From:  karen (karen10051)   12/19/2001 7:17 am  
To:  Alex_Anatole (AlexAnatole)   (3 of 44)  
 
  290.3 in reply to 290.2  
 
Thank you for your response Alex... 
So, my submission ends at sin's door..would that be your point of view? 

I believe we are in agreement... 

karen

  
  
   Options  Reply Delete Edit   
Rate 
  
    
 


  From:  Alex_Anatole (AlexAnatole)   12/19/2001 7:29 am  
To:  karen (karen10051)   (4 of 44)  
 
  290.4 in reply to 290.3  
 
Karen, 
As an Orthodox Christian, I am in submission to my Bishop - AS LONG AS HE PREACHES THE TRUE GOSPEL! 

But if the Bishop begins to preach error, it is my responsibility to oppose his error. 

No one, not husband, or Bishop, or friend, or neighbor, has the right to command us to sin. 

We are very much in agreement! 

Alex 


www.stseraphim.org 
www.delphi.com/orthodoxway 
  
   Options  Reply Delete Edit   
Rate 
  
    
 


  From:  karen (karen10051)   12/19/2001 7:48 am  
To:  Alex_Anatole (AlexAnatole)   (5 of 44)  
 
  290.5 in reply to 290.4  
 
Hi Alex.. 
What is an orthodox Christian? Excuse my ignorance, I even made it to your website, but was unable to find an explanation. 

karen

  
  
   Options  Reply Delete Edit   
Rate 
  
    
 


  From:  Alex_Anatole (AlexAnatole)   12/19/2001 8:17 am  
To:  karen (karen10051)   (6 of 44)  
 
  290.6 in reply to 290.5  
 
Karen, 
Ever hear of the Russian Orthodox Church? Or the Greek Orthodox Church? Same thing. 

We believe that we are the Church Christ founded. Roman Catholicism split off from us about a thousand years ago. We believe in the Trinity, and in the two natures of Christ. 

On the OrthodoxWay site there is a thread called "useful web sites." Browse around there and you will find more complete explanations of Orthodoxy. 

And questions are most welcome? 

Alex 


www.stseraphim.org 
www.delphi.com/orthodoxway 
If you love Jesus, honk x40!
 
  
   Options  Reply Delete Edit   
Rate 
  
    
 


  From:  karen (karen10051)   12/19/2001 8:31 am  
To:  Alex_Anatole (AlexAnatole)   (7 of 44)  
 
  290.7 in reply to 290.6  
 
And how does it vary from your standard protestant church? If you dont mind me asking. 
karen

  
  
   Options  Reply Delete Edit   
Rate 
  
    
 


  From:  Alex_Anatole (AlexAnatole)   12/19/2001 8:45 am  
To:  karen (karen10051)   (8 of 44)  
 
  290.8 in reply to 290.7  
 
Karen, 
Which "standard Protestant church?" Last I heard there were over 25,000 Protestant denominations in this country alone! 

But let's try. 

Although we love the Scriptures, and use them more in worship that any other Christian church, Orthodoxy is not founded on the Scriptures. Orthodoxy is founded on Christ. The Scriptures were written, preserved, assembled, and approved by the Church under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. 

We have the same organizational structure that we see being formed in the early Church, as recorded in the New Testament (NT) Scriptures: Bishops, Presbyters, and Deacons. 

We continue to meet in council to decide issues affecting the whole Church, as did the early Church, as recorded in Acts. 

We believe the Mysteries (Sacraments) are real, and not merely symbolic. 

These are a few of the differences. 

Alex 


www.stseraphim.org 
www.delphi.com/orthodoxway 
If you love Jesus, honk x40!
 
  
   Options  Reply Delete Edit   
Rate 
  
    
 


  From:  karen (karen10051)   12/19/2001 9:01 am  
To:  Alex_Anatole (AlexAnatole)   (9 of 44)  
 
  290.9 in reply to 290.8  
 
Thank you Alex for the information. 
karen

  
  
   Options  Reply Delete Edit   
Rate 
  
    
 


Message 10 of 44 was Deleted    



  From:  karen (karen10051)   12/19/2001 4:35 pm  
To:  nbreeze   (11 of 44)  
 
  290.11 in reply to 290.10  
 
Hi 
You said: " I think any disobedience of a solumn order from a woman's husband is a sin even if the order is a sin. You're stuck between two sins. " 

We must agree to disagree Sir, because i cannot believe a loving God would place me in a no=win situation. You are indicating that He knowingly places me in a situation where i MUST sin...and then forgives me? How can this be? 

karen

  
  
   Options  Reply Delete Edit   
Rate 
  
    
 


  From:  nbreeze   12/19/2001 5:13 pm  
To:  karen (karen10051)   (12 of 44)  
 
  290.12 in reply to 290.11  
 
Have I done anything more than state the reason you're coming here for advice in the first place? 
If you yourself were sure God would not place you in such a situation, you wouldn't've asked, would you? 

I am not sure. Notice that I answered the question with two answers. Either it is not a sin, or it is. If it is not a sin to disobey a command to sin, and you disobey that command, you win. But do you really? Would everything really be right in your marriage as a result? That's the thing about marriage, you are not just yourself anymore. It may be that you are in a lose-lose situation _because_ you are joined to your husband who is the one doing the unquestioned sin in demanding such a thing of you. Perhaps our good/evil slates are not entirely our own in a marriage. Perhaps that's why there is a verse about an unbelieving spouse being sanctified by a believing spouse. We like to ignore that. It's just so weird. 

Any other combination of right/wrong and the choice you could make would obviously be wrong. 

I offered two answers in my last message because I'm not sure there _is_ a way to get yourself past such a situation without touching sin. If there is, then there's no worry, right? Except your spouse is already dirtied. The second answer I gave is that there _is_ no lose/lose situation because Grace exists. I don't want such a decision to break you. I want you to see that you can even step through sin to get to God. After that, your understanding of Grace will blossom. 

You're not going to make it through the rest of your life without sinning, why pull your hair out over one instance where you may be a little more hemmed in than usual? I sure hope you don't believe in heridity guilt from Original Sin and then think it's unfair for God to present you with a lose/lose situation from a legalistic point of view. Just know that even if a lose/lose situation does exist (and I'm not sure it does), there _never is_ a true lose/lose situation. Grace conquers all. 

- Garren
 
  
   Options  Reply Delete Edit   
Rate 
  
    
 


  From:  karen (karen10051)   12/20/2001 4:18 am  
To:  nbreeze   (13 of 44)  
 
  290.13 in reply to 290.12  
 
Actually Sir, i did not come here for "advice" but for dialogue and interesting conversation regarding some of these issues. 
Your message is interesting but unclear as you seem to be engaging in some sort of double speak. 

My original question was simply this: should a woman submit even into sin? OR is she sinning by not submitting? 

karen

  
  
   Options  Reply Delete Edit   
Rate 
  
    
 


Message 14 of 44 was Deleted    



  From:  karen (karen10051)   12/20/2001 5:52 am  
To:  nbreeze   (15 of 44)  
 
  290.15 in reply to 290.14  
 
Thanks for your reply...it is an interesting and difficult question. 
karen

  
  
   Options  Reply Delete Edit   
Rate 
  
    
 


  From:  Jim (pentitent)    12/23/2001 8:39 pm  
To:  karen (karen10051)   (16 of 44)  
 
  290.16 in reply to 290.1  
 
You are never obligated by submission to do what is against God. In your relationships you are to be responsible to God, yourself, then your spouse, then your children! If your husband is Godly and only asks of you Godly things, then you submit. When he veers to the unGodly, then you do what's right by God.
May God bless and keep you, my brothers and sisters! 

 
  
   Options  Reply Delete Edit   
Rate 
  
    
 


  From:  123four   12/26/2001 12:05 am  
To:  karen (karen10051)   (17 of 44)  
 
  290.17 in reply to 290.1  
 
We serve the One who is our Lord. 
 
  
   Options  Reply Delete Edit   
Rate 
  
    
 


  From:  123four   12/26/2001 12:10 am  
To:  nbreeze   (18 of 44)  
 
  290.18 in reply to 290.10  
 
Strange ideas. Consider that God will 
not allow us to have other gods before 
him. That includes husbands as gods. 
God does not accept excuses for sin. 
If Jesus is truly our Lord, then we will 
follow only Him. 
  
   Options  Reply Delete Edit   
Rate 
  
    
 


  From:  123four   12/26/2001 12:13 am  
To:  nbreeze   (19 of 44)  
 
  290.19 in reply to 290.12  
 
God's grace is not to be used as an 
excuse to follow after another god, 
to obey this god, rather than the real 
God. 
 
  
   Options  Reply Delete Edit   
Rate 
  
    
 


   From:  karen (karen10051)   12/26/2001 6:46 am  
To:  123four   (20 of 44)  
 
  290.20 in reply to 290.17  
 
YEs, but the bible specifically says that a woman is to obey or submit in ALL things...so, if i am commanded by my husband to sin and i refuse, have i not sinned? 
karen

  
  
   Options  Reply Delete Edit  
 
From:  123four   12/26/2001 7:57 am  
To:  karen (karen10051)   (21 of 44)  
 
  290.21 in reply to 290.20  
 
The scripture tells us to submit to our 
husbands as to the Lord. You left that 
last part out. As to the Lord means in 
obedience to God and in holiness. When 
a husband or anyone else tries to Lord 
it over us so that we obey them in their 
desire to see us do evil, instead of God, 
then a victory for satan has been won. 
I think you already know in your heart 
that God has never told a wife to obey 
her husband in evil works. Is it God 
that you have the question to? Then 
use His word to address that question.
 
  
   Options  Reply Delete Edit   
Rate 
  
    
 


  From:  Alex_Anatole (AlexAnatole)   12/26/2001 7:58 am  
To:  karen (karen10051)   (22 of 44)  
 
  290.22 in reply to 290.20  
 
Karen, 
The Scriptures also tell husbands to love their wives as Christ loves His Church. 

Would Christ lead His Church into sin? 

Alex 


www.stseraphim.org 
www.delphi.com/orthodoxway 
If you love Jesus, honk x40!
 
  
   Options  Reply Delete Edit   
Rate 
  
    
 


  From:  Barbara (BARBARA3)    12/26/2001 7:58 am  
To:  karen (karen10051)   (23 of 44)  
 
  290.23 in reply to 290.20  
 
It also says to submit one to another.
Barbara 
  
   Options  Reply Delete Edit   
Rate 
  
    
 


  From:  karen (karen10051)   12/26/2001 12:42 pm  
To:  123four   (24 of 44)  
 
  290.24 in reply to 290.21  
 
Actually, this was a discussion on another forum that i was involved in...and my personal opinion was very much like yours. However, there seems to be alot of different thought on the subject, so i was really just provoking discussion. 
karen

  
  
   Options  Reply Delete Edit   
Rate 
  
    
 


  From:  karen (karen10051)   12/26/2001 12:44 pm  
To:  Alex_Anatole (AlexAnatole)   (25 of 44)  
 
  290.25 in reply to 290.22  
 
AH...but does my behavior hinge on his? Do i only submit if he is not sinning? THen in reality, i would never submit because we are all imperfect. 
karen

  
  
   Options  Reply Delete Edit   
Rate 
  
    
 


  From:  Alex_Anatole (AlexAnatole)   12/26/2001 12:59 pm  
To:  karen (karen10051)   (26 of 44)  
 
  290.26 in reply to 290.25  
 
Karen, 
Yes we are all imperfect. And God wants us to strive for perfection. But perfection is an infinately distant goal. 

But there is good news. Striving to reach an infinately distant goal has a reward. It's called progress! 

In the Olympic games the goals are not "fast, far, high." The goals are not even "fastest, farthest, highest." They are "faster, farther, higher." 

The goal which can never be achieved is the only one worth pursuing. 

Do a web search of "theosis." 

Alex 


www.stseraphim.org 
www.delphi.com/orthodoxway 
If you love Jesus, honk x40!
 
  
   Options  Reply Delete Edit   
Rate 
  
    
 


  From:  waldo700 (waldo_garcia)   12/26/2001 1:36 pm  
To:  karen (karen10051)   (27 of 44)  
 
  290.27 in reply to 290.1  
 
Karen, 
Although I believe you have already received similar advice to what I am about to say, I just send you my message in the hopes that the plain commonsense of it will sink in and will be your rule, (because I believe it is Scriptural -- which is the most important thing here). 

The rule is simply that you must submit in all things EXCEPT when that submission causes you to commit a sin. Your husband can either cause you to sin by "commission" -- telling you to do something which is in itself sinful -- or by "omission" -- by prohibiting an act of righteousness which would be a sin NOT to do. It's just that simple. 

Romans 13 talks about how we are to obey the civil government and the same principles apply there. Even more explicitly, Peter says in Acts 5:28-30: 

"We [the chief priests] gave you strict orders not to teach in this name," he said. "Yet you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and are determined to make us guilty of this man's blood." Peter and the other apostles replied: "We must obey God rather than men!" 

Normally, it would have been correct to obey the authorities. In indisputable matters, we are supposed to obey those in authority over us. But when the issue is what God wants versus what the human authority wants -- God ALWAYS wins! God is always ths ultimate authority and He is the DEFINING authority. (If there were no God, we could not even understand the concept of "authority.") That's why man's authority, whether it be your church, your husband, or your government -- though it should normally be obeyed -- it ALWAYS takes a back seat to God's authority WHEN THE TWO ARE IN CONTRADICTION. 

As for the very unlikely event where it seems that you would be sinning, no matter which choice you make, you must weigh the options for the greater good. The midwives had to sin by lying; but they accomplished a more important good -- they rescued Moses and so performed God's will. So what did God think of that? In Exodus, it says that they were rewarded: "because the midwives feared God, he gave them families of their own." (Ex. 1:21) God looked at their heart. Although they lied on the outside, their hearts were "God-fearing." In John 7:24, Jesus says, "Stop judging by mere appearances, and make a right judgment." These are all heart issues. 

So, in sum: you only need to obey, (to paraphrase an earlier post), "up to sin's door." And remember you probably won't run into a conflict of interest, but if you do, God's will is first; and your God-fearing desire to please Him should lead you in which is the greater good between two actions. 

Blessings, 



waldo garcia
 
  
   Options  Reply Delete Edit   
Rate 
  
    
 


  From:  123four   12/26/2001 1:55 pm  
To:  karen (karen10051)   (28 of 44)  
 
  290.28 in reply to 290.24  
 
That's what I thought you were doing. 
I know that some wives who say they are 
Christians do, in fact, do ungodly things 
because they want to, then they blame it 
on the 'submission' principle. lol lol 
But, we know that God knows the heart 
and the intent of our hearts, so that 
won't wash with God. 
 
  
   Options  Reply Delete Edit   
Rate 
  
    
 


  From:  Jim (pentitent)    1/12/2002 4:18 pm  
To:  Alex_Anatole (AlexAnatole)   (29 of 44)  
 
  290.29 in reply to 290.8  
 
<<<Although we love the Scriptures, and use them more in worship that any other Christian church, Orthodoxy is not founded on the Scriptures. Orthodoxy is founded on Christ. The Scriptures were written, preserved, assembled, and approved by the Church under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.>>> 
Just curious, my brother; but you said that Orthodoxy trust the Holy Spirit for direction over the Scripture. How can you separate the two, when Jesus is the Scripture! We know there are several verses that say Jesus was, is, and will always be the Word! Since they are three, but one, in the Godhead, how can you separate two of them as different, when they differ not in belief or essence? 

<<<We have the same organizational structure that we see being formed in the early Church, as recorded in the New Testament (NT) Scriptures: Bishops, Presbyters, and Deacons.>>> 

And every Christian denomination, I have studied or had experiences with have this same structure; so I see no difference here! Even the Baptist preachers, reverends, and ministers answer to higher administrative councils. Just because they are not called bishops doesn't mean they don't serve the same purpose! 

<<<We continue to meet in council to decide issues affecting the whole Church, as did the early Church, as recorded in Acts.>>> 

As do all other denominations! Again, no difference! 

<<<We believe the Mysteries (Sacraments) are real, and not merely symbolic.>>> 

As do most of the other denominations! Do you think that others don't observe Communion? And if I'm not wrong this is the only sacrament that was commanded, to do this in rememberance of Him! What are the others you observe? 


May God bless and keep you, my brothers and sisters! 

 
  
   Options  Reply Delete Edit   
Rate 
  
    
 


  From:  Alex_Anatole (AlexAnatole)   1/12/2002 7:52 pm  
To:  Jim (pentitent)    (30 of 44)  
 
  290.30 in reply to 290.29  
 
P, 
Are the Scriptures co-eternal with the Father? Are the Scriptures the only begotten of the Father? Are the Scriptures of one Essence with the Father? Did the Scriptures assume human nature? Did the Scriptures die on the cross? Did the Scriptures rise again on the third day? 

You have confused the Word of God with a selection of inspired words about God. 

In fact, it sounds like you have made the Scriptures into a kind of idol. 

As for the rest, yes, anyone can claim anything. But will their claims stand up to a close examination of their history and doctrine spanning teh last 20 centuries? Ours will, if you have the courage to test them. 


Alex 
www.stseraphim.org 
www.delphi.com/orthodoxway 

If you love Jesus, honk x40!
 
  
   Options  Reply Delete Edit   
Rate 
  
    
 


  From:  StevenJn316   1/12/2002 8:40 pm  
To:  ALL   (31 of 44)  
 
  290.31 in reply to 290.30  
 
There is no doubt that John refers to Jesus as The Word...but of course that is an English translation.. Actually Jesus is the logos. 
John equating Jesus with the logos is significant as the logos was a 'concept' in ancient Greek thought as some of you who are familiar with Philo may realize. Arguments abounded as to who or what was logos, usually assigning some measure of deity to the concept. 

So when John says the logos was in the beginning with God and also WAS God and then the logos became flesh and dwelt among us (speaking of Jesus) he was saying a very significant thing to the Greek mind of his day (and our minds today) as to the deity of Jesus of Nazareth. 

However, John was in no way equating Jesus with the Scriptures by calling him the 'word'. In fact, the Greek word ALWAYS used and translated as 'scripture' (in either singular or plural, including 12 times by John) is a different Greek word 'graphe' (where we get our English words like autograph). 

 
  
   Options  Reply Delete Edit   
Rate 
  
    
 


  From:  Jim (pentitent)    1/13/2002 4:55 pm  
To:  Alex_Anatole (AlexAnatole)   (32 of 44)  
 
  290.32 in reply to 290.30  
 
And it sounds to me as if you deny Jesus is the Word! How come you didn't answer the questions?
May God bless and keep you, my brothers and sisters! 

 
  
   Options  Reply Delete Edit   
Rate 
  
    
 


  From:  Jim (pentitent)    1/13/2002 4:57 pm  
To:  Alex_Anatole (AlexAnatole)   (33 of 44)  
 
  290.33 in reply to 290.30  
 
And yours is what? Catholic?
May God bless and keep you, my brothers and sisters! 

 
  
   Options  Reply Delete Edit   
Rate 
  
    
 


  From:  Jim (pentitent)    1/13/2002 5:01 pm  
To:  StevenJn316   (34 of 44)  
 
  290.34 in reply to 290.31  
 
So you don't believe that the whole Word of God is inspired by God, either! There is no way to separate the two! If they were inspired by Him then they are what He is! Otherwise He wouldn't have given it to us! Do you expect people to believe you are what you say? So does Jesus! He is the Word! To believe in Jesus, you must also believe the inerrant Word of God! You are what you preach! It doesn't take years of study or a Theological degree to realize that!
May God bless and keep you, my brothers and sisters! 

 
  
   Options  Reply Delete Edit   
Rate 
  
    
 


  From:  StevenJn316   1/13/2002 7:43 pm  
To:  Jim (pentitent)    (35 of 44)  
 
  290.35 in reply to 290.34  
 
So you don't believe that the whole Word of God is inspired by God, either! There is no way to separate the two! If they were inspired by Him then they are what He is! Otherwise He wouldn't have given it to us! Do you expect people to believe you are what you say? So does Jesus! He is the Word! To believe in Jesus, you must also believe the inerrant Word of God! You are what you preach! It doesn't take years of study or a Theological degree to realize that! 
___________________________________________________________________ 
I'm not sure why you jump to such conclusions after reading my posts. Of course I believe the Whole Word of God is inspired by Him. I am 100% on inerrancy of Scripture in ALL things (6 day creation..EVERYTHING). And why the rather combative tone? 
The Bible is God's revelation to us. To say though the Scriptures EQUAL God seems a rather obvious fallacy though. God is the author of 100% of the Bible, and like any author, what has been written reveals much of the author. But the writings do not EQUAL God...just like the writings of Calvin, Wesley, Tozer or Shakespeare are not EQUAL to the man. 

Do you think the Scriptures equate all of the majesty, glory etc. of the Holy Godhead? The apostle Paul did not. You will recall he entered the 3rd heaven and "heard unspeakable words which it is not lawful for a man to utter". (2 Cor 12:4) The written word was so inadequate to express all the glory he had encountered that he did not even try to put it on paper - by the way, since I hold to inerrancy, that means God inspired Paul to NOT try and write it down. 

I simply offered a short word study on what it means when Jesus is called by John the logos (word) of God. Hopefully it was profitable for some on the board if it was not profitable for you. 

 
  
   Options  Reply Delete Edit   
Rate 
  
    
 


  From:  Jim (pentitent)    1/13/2002 10:25 pm  
To:  StevenJn316   (36 of 44)  
 
  290.36 in reply to 290.35  
 
It wasn't intended as combative! I don't believe the scripture to have the physical attributes of Jesus, but I do believe they exude tremendously the essence and spiritual power of Jesus! They have too! They are intend His thoughts, feelings, and intentions! And as the Bible says, "...the Word became flesh and dwelt among us; and we beheld His Glory..." This sounds to me like the Word indeed merits the same glory, since it is Jesus Christ!
May God bless and keep you, my brothers and sisters! 

 
  
   Options  Reply Delete Edit   
Rate 
  
    
 


Message 37 of 44 was Deleted    



  From:  Rtartan   1/18/2002 7:26 pm  
To:  karen (karen10051)   (38 of 44)  
 
  290.38 in reply to 290.1  
 
As I see it we are all called to obey those in authority over us UNTIL the point where we are called to sin. 
So the Apostles said to the leaders of the Synagogues.
 
  
   Options  Reply Delete Edit   
Rate 
  
    
 


  From:  karen (karen10051)   1/19/2002 5:04 am  
To:  Rtartan   (39 of 44)  
 
  290.39 in reply to 290.38  
 
i agree absolutely. 
karen

  
  
   Options  Reply Delete Edit   
Rate 
  
    
 


   From:  Rtartan   1/31/2002 1:52 pm  
To:  123four   (40 of 44)  
 
  290.40 in reply to 290.21  
 
I tend to agree with you, but If Sarah, whom Peter call on wives to look on as an example followed Abraham even going along when Abraham lied both to Pharoh and Abimelech. 
Artie
 
  
   Options  Reply Delete Edit  
 
From:  TigerRaj   2/3/2002 10:19 pm  
To:  karen (karen10051)   (41 of 44)  
 
  290.41 in reply to 290.1  
 
Hi Karen. 
Without reading through all 40 replies to your intitial post, I'd simply like to suggest that I think the example of Ananias and Sapphira (Acts 5:1-11) pose a good answer to your question. If someone else has already made this reference, I apologize.
 
  
   Options  Reply Delete Edit   
Rate 
  
    
 


Message 42 of 44 was Deleted    



  From:  Joseph (BLAKSHEEP)    2/15/2002 4:04 pm  
To:  karen (karen10051)   (43 of 44)  
 
  290.43 in reply to 290.1  
 

On another forum, there was a rather heated debate about this, and whether a woman is obligated by God to follow her husband into sin in order to be submissive. 
 

No!

Regardless of what someone may attempt to coerce you into doing under the guise of biblical submission...God never requires people to follow another into sin.

To the contrary...Christians are to rebuke sin.

And, to rebuke those who would attempt to lead them into sin.

Those who are promoting that "biblical submission" nonsense are doing exactly that...attempting to get people to follow them into sin so that they can feel better about it.

The attitude "Submit to me as you would to Christ." is nothing but a clever lie.



 

            John 6:28,29

Bible Search

Study Tools  


 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Are people always picking on you? If so, the answer might be a simple as  clicking here !
 

See the All New God v6.0 Here!!! 

 
  
   Options  Reply Delete Edit   
Rate 
  
    
 


   From:  karen (karen10051)   2/15/2002 4:14 pm  
To:  Joseph (BLAKSHEEP)    (44 of 44)  
 
  290.44 in reply to 290.43  
 
*smiles* well i agree, but i know lots of women who truly believe that 
they are accountable to their husbands and that their husbands are accountable to God. Interesting concept. I dont believe that they are attempting to coerce ME into sin though.


  
  
   Options  Reply Delete Edit 
 
